Is 2011 Really The Year Of Ethical Marketers?
There was a lot of talk last year about how 2011 was going to be the year of ethical marketing?
Whatever happened to that – have you seen any changes?
I joined a JV Giveaway Event yesterday called ‘Everyone Will Win’ based on the fact that it was recommended to me by another marketer and had the photos of a lot of big name marketers on the signup page who it said were taking part.
But I just spoke to one of the people listed and he knew nothing about it.
Creating a fake list of people to attract signups is not really the best way to run an event or to establish yourself as a marketer.
I have joined hundred of Giveaway events and have never come across this before. Maybe it happens and nobody notices?
UPDATE
I am adding to the post to clarify what happened.
I promoted the event and some of my subscribers were unhappy about how the event was setup as you can see in the comments below this post.
I lodged a support ticket which was not answered.
I made this post and emailed my list explaining how I see the situation, because I made a mistake
promoting this event to them. I intended this to protect my subscribers, not to attack anyone -
I did not mention any names because for all I knew the names listed might not be involved at all.
I apologize to any genuine marketer who is involved with the event if they were offended by my post.
I have now found out from the comments below that a mistake was made with one of the names – Rich Shefren.
Some people are only donating prizes, not actually taking part which what was implied in the original sales letter.
This was the original list:
Bob Yeager
Dr.Mani
Ian Del Carmen
Mark Hendricks
Kristi Sayles
Gary Bacchetti
Rich Shefren
Shahar Boyayon
Tracy Repchuk
Art Rodgers
Willie Crawford
Mike Glaspie
David Jackson
Lee Benson
John Thornhill
Steve Yakim
Jimmy D. Brown
Jane Mark
Peter Downs
The inclusion of Rich Shefren in the list made me think this was a massive event because I have never seen such a big name in one of these events before. I promoted to a much bigger section of my lists than I normally send Giveaway events too. Some people just didn’t believe he was in it and have told me so. I don’t know how many unsubcribes I had because of this.
Anyone can make a mistake or several mistakes, I know I have made a lot, so it is up to everyone to decide if they would like to join the event now or not.
Mistakes were made in this event, which has caused trouble for other people including myself, but it’s time to move on now and hope this doesn’t happen again. I will look at every future event carefully and judge it on it’s own merits before promoting it.
I am approving everyone’s comments and you can decide for yourself if I should have made this post.
How Do You Find Ethical Marketers?
All I can say is be careful who you trust.
In my newsletter I choose one marketer each month who I know to be a good marketer so have a look at the back issues. I also have links in my blogroll to the marketers I follow myself.
In my first Newsletter I reviewed Randy Smith’s blog
- he has a great idea for getting traffic to your own blog:
He’s running a competiton and as a prize you can win a Camtasia or Snagit licence.
All you have to do is send him traffic. Could you do something similar?
Have a look here:
I wouldn’t mind winning myself as I only have a very old version – Camtasia 3 – which is
My Favourite Freebie I Got From Randy Smith!
(from an email he sent out about 4 years ago.)
I’ve been using this to compress my videos and upload them to youtube which saves masses of upload time.
About time I upgraded though!
Until next time,
Keith
Disclosure: This blog post is my entry into the competition, and if you do click the links to Randy’s blog it increases my chances of winning 
Filed under: General
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Hi Keith,
Cheers for the mention
(and good luck in the competition)
I got a track back (I think) from this post – saw your name and approved it otherwise it would have been deleted….lol
I do get a lot of comments and trackbacks that I check where it’s just the spam bots who have worked out hot to get back all my filters and plugins… Thank goodness it’s not as many as it used to be without those tools! .. lol
Later mate
Randy
RandySmith@InternetMarketingRambles´s last [type] ..Cool Camtasia Competition – Be In It To WIN It!
Hi Randy,
I think I’ve entered a bit late too win,
but it’s the taking part the counts…
Thanks
Keith
Thanks for the tip about the giveaway event….I have started to use Giveaway events and any info is always appreciated. I like your e-mails that list out all the giveaway event opportunities.
Mary
Thanks for commenting Mary, this is the only event I’ve seen that I wouldnt recommend joining. I’m not in all of them myself as some don’t work witrh my site PBG2.
Keith,
Please read this reply carefully….
I have written you another comment that hasn’t shown up yet, but I want you to be sure to read this one!
Steve Yakim and I are on the phone right now. We just discovered that it had to be Rich Shefren that didn’t know about the contest, because there was a misunderstanding! I got this Facebook message from my friend, Joshua Shafran, stating that he wanted to participate. Steve misunderstood and thought I said Shefren! That’s why HIS picture WAS on the site. As soon as he found out that Rich did not agree, he removed the picture! Every other marketer on that site has agreed to participate and all but TWO have committed to an extremely expensive gift package that THEY chose! I have the emails if you want to see them! The contest has not even launched yet, and I’m sure that those two plan to send their promised gifts any time now!
Please have a heart and don’t ruin our good reputations this way. I understand that you were upset when you found out that Rich didn’t know anything about it, but it was a truly human mistake and has now been corrected. If I had Rich’s email or phone number, I would call and apologize myself for the mixup.
Below, I have pasted the agreement from Joshua Shafran so that you can see why I told Steve to expect his gift…
Hi Kristi!
Thanks for thinking of me. Tellman Knudsen manages my list and my entire product line now….so maybe he can provide something to be a part of this for you guys.
Thanks for the heads up. I know one of the people listed and I don’t find this person all that ethical in their practices so I decided not to sign up for the event.
Hi Maureen,
I’ll be looking out for those names again and trying to avoid them. The trouble is there’s so many events on at the moments that I’ve been joining them without looking into to much detail…
Thanks
Keith
hey Keith
So glad you put a post up about this.
Something isn’t right about this. I smell a rat
Kerry
Kerry Russell´s last [type] ..Quick Update For My Subscribers – The FREE Training I Promised You
Hi Kerry,
Good luck with our event (which opens for members today
if anyone’s looking for gifts – link in my blog’s side bar).
I think there’s more than one rat in that one!
Thanks
Keith
Hi Keith.
Thanks for the heads up.
I also thought something was wrong with this event.
have also stopped promoting this one.
My Gift has also been removed.
Aimee
Aimee Grace´s last [type] ..Organizing your own Giveaway Event
Hi Aimee,
Did you find a way to delete your account?
I couldn’t so I just blanked out the fields.
I haven’t seen anyone else promote the event
so looks like it’s going to fail.
Thanks
Keith
Hi Keith
I have come across 4 fantastic ladies who aren’t afraid to stand up and be counted when it comes to scammers and spammers, so yes, I think 2011 is the start of ethical marketing exposed.
It is disturbing that people fake lists. It is fruadulent use of someone’s name and reputation. As Randy knows, I recently came across fake testimonials which I am sure will have serious repurcussions for the guy.
As an ethical marketer, it is a practice that I abhor, and how many reputations are being sullied by this sort of thing?
Dee
Dee´s last [type] ..Are Internet Marketers getting desperate?
Hi Dee,
I think people who use this kind of tactic end up going more and more extreme. The same thing has happened with email makreting and all those spam titles like ‘Here’s your payment’.
This was never going to work in the long run, most of us know a lot of other marketers and somebody was bound to join who knew one of the names listed.
When I look at it now the graphics are awful too.
Their budget must have been about $5.
Thanks
Keith
Unfortunately, at the moment there seems to be a few dubious things going on in Internet Marketing, (Actors, Actors pretending they are not actors, Clickbank holes, etc…)It is such a pity that some people involved in Giveaways think it’s okay to be less than honest.
Oh, well, I suppose we can hope that 2012 will be the year of the ethical marketer.
PS, I have directed my newsletter readers here, anf asked them to help you win.
Barry´s last [type] ..Subliminal Self Help – The Real Story
I saw a WSO the other day for a WP plugin that creates fake comments for your blog — now people are spamming themselves to get traffic.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Your Strengths And How To Apply Them To Your Internet Business
Thanks very much Barry,
I’m sure Randy will be happy with the extra traffic
Keith
Hi Keith
Thanks for the warning, I was so close to sign up
even if it sounded too god about the amount of signups.
I was’nt shure about the secret signup either.
I,m rather new in this IM game, so far I only joined
a few giveaways. But I don’t find the leeds very responsive.
Is it only me or are we flooded with these events at the moment.
I’m recieving several mails daily promoting new events.
I mean is’nt it the same people signing up for the gifts?
Which takes me to another issue: The gift quality.
I think there are to many gifts with no real value.
Ok two years ago I would have signed up, but not today.
Gunnar
I have no last type due to a rebuilding
Gunnar Hansen´s last [type] ..It’s Time to Grab a Healthy Life
Hi Gunnar,
I have now updated my post to explain what happened.
Yes, you have to be selective with which gifts you download if signup as a member, but I have seen some very good ones too.
You will see some of the same people in each event,
but there is also a mixture of new ones.
I think Giveaway events are still a good way to
build a list.
Thanks
Keith
Wow, I didn’t sign up due to some other reasons, but when I looked at the list I saw some pretty high powered names that I often see at giveaways, but there were a couple that I don’t believe I’ve seen partake before.
It made me wonder if giveaways were experiencing a comeback in popularity but the fact that some of those are fake is pretty scary. I wonder how many of those people know they’re being used.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Your Strengths And How To Apply Them To Your Internet Business
Keith,
Your info is well founded, I received info from another person about people who use different email address to sign up to giveaways and none of them ever take upgrades. Shady folks if you ask me.
John
John Estes´s last [type] ..iPhone Keyboard Tips And Tricks
Hi Keith,
Steve Yakim here at EveryoneWillWin.com. There is nothing unethical going on at EveryoneWillWin.com. You just posted a negative review of this giveaway saying that a fake list of people was created to attract signups without contacting anyone who is running it to see just what was going on.
This is a different concept in combining a contest and a giveaway. The giveaway has not launched yet and all but 3 of the big name marketers have already donated a prize.
Everyone who enters will win one of the prizes and the giveaway gifts will be listed as bonus prizes that people can download right away. There will be a random drawing for the grand prizes at the end of the giveaway.
Here is a list of the big name marketers that have already donated a prize…
Jane Mark – has donated a $15,195.00 Grand Prize – This is a traffic prize so the winner can drive truck loads of traffic to their site for a year.
Bob Yeager – has donated a $4,997.00 coaching prize.
Gary Bacchetti – has donated a $1,997.00 coaching prize.
John Thornhill – has donated a $1,559.74 coaching prize.
Willie Crawford – has donated a $1,497.00 coaching prize.
Mark Hendricks – has donated a $1,164.00 ISS Gold Membership which includes coaching and all seminars.
Lee Benson – has donated a $1,000.00 gift certificate to his “My Help Hub Network” so you can purchase any of the products listed on his network.
Mike Glaspie – has donated a $936.00 ICANetwork Phone Apps prize.
Shahar Boyayon – has donated a $397.00 “How to use Online Videos for Business Training Program.
Jimmy D. Brown – has donated a $240.00 One year Traffic Fuel Membership.
Ian Del Carmin – has donated a iPhone App Full Source Code and did not state the value.
The last time I ran EveryoneWillWin.com in 2006, this giveaway was the one that got Ian Del Carmin started in Internet Marketing.
Instead of saying that EveryoneWillWin.com is run by unethical marketers you should be promoting this one giveaway as much as you can to your list. Plus I think you owe everyone at EveryoneWillWin.com an appology for saying we are unethical.
The only people who may be unethical are the 3 big name marketers that have not submitted their prize after saying they would. But it is to early to say that also because the giveaway has not launched yet and they are still promising to get their prize in to us.
Everyone who enters EveryoneWillWin.com has a chance to win one of these prizes, including the JV Partners who contribute the bonus prizes in the giveaway part of this event.
So I would tell as many people about EveryoneWillWin.com because it is very different and everyone will win something, hence the name, EveryoneWillWin.com.
You will see exactly what this giveaway is about when I make the salesletter go live the day the giveaway launches.
Keith, you had access to my support desk on the EveryoneWillWin.com site and should have contacted me before saying we were unethical.
Wishing you much list building success,
Steve Yakim
Hi Keith,
Steve Yakim here from EveryoneWillWin.com. I was really sadden to see that you bashed the Everyone WillWin.com site and said…
“Creating a fake list of people to attract signups is not really the best way to run an event or to establish yourself as a marketer.”
EveryoneWillWin.com is a different kind of giveaway and is much different than all the run of the mill giveaways. We have combined a contest and a giveaway together and have some terrific prizes to give away.
The giveaway is still in prelaunch an we have received gifts from all the big named marketers that are mentioned on this JV invite page except 3 people and they still have time to add theirs…
[LINK REMOVE]
Jane Mark has donated a $15,195.00 traffic prize.
Bob Yeager has donated a $4,997.00 coaching prize
Gary Bacchetti has donated a $1,997.00 coaching prize
John Thornhil has donated a $1,559.00 coaching prize
Willie Crawford has donated a $1,497.00 coaching prize
Mark Hendricks has donated a $1,164.00 ISS Gold Membership with coaching and free tickets to all his events.
Lee Benson has donated a $1,000.00 gift certificate to his “My Help Hub Network”
Mike Glaspie has donated a $936.00 ICANetwork Phone Apps Membership
Shahar Boyayon has donated a $397.00 “How to use Online Videos For Business” Training Program
Jimmy D. Brown has donated a $240.00 One Year Traffic Fuel Membership
Ian Del Carmin has donated an iPhone App Full Source Code. He did not start the value on this prize.
The giveaway part of the Everyone Will Win Event are considered bonus prizes that everyone can get right away.
These prizes will be given away by random drawing at the end of the giveaway to people who registers as a contributor or a regular member.
We are giving away over $30,000.00 in prizes at this giveaway and compared to all the other giveaways, this one is the most ethical.
Heck, we are not even hitting the contributors with an OTO! And when the regular members sign up they will only see one OTO. We are not hitting people with OTO after OTO like all the other giveaways do. There are 5 very ethical partners running the Everyone Will Win Contest and Giveaway and we all have an OTO that is in a rotator so that each person will only see one OTO ever.
This is a list building event and not an OTO event.
I know when you go to giveaways, you get tired of filling out subscription form after subscription form in order to download the gifts. And then have find your way though OTO after OTO before you get the gift you want a half hour later.
At the Everyone Will Win Contest and Giveaway, everyone signs up only one time and that is it. When a giveaway gift is clicked on to download that Contest registration will be the information added to the contributor’s autoresponder.
If it is a double opt-in autoresponder like Aweber, the person requesting the gift still has to confirm their email address in order to get the gift. The contest registration information is the best email address to get because people will give you a better email address because they want to win the prizes and don’t want to miss the prize announcement email
This saves the regular members a lot of time, which means they will not get tired of downloading gifts as quickly and the contributors will receive more subscribers.
It is all explained in our rules that they have to agree to in order to enter the contest. We actually make a big deal about the rules on the salesletter.
Everything is very ethical and above board at Everyone Will Win.
What other giveaway can you mention that even comes close to what we have to offer at the Everyone Will Win Event.
Some of the big name marketers have also agreed to send to their list also. Now I said some, but not all.
The only people that may have some ethics problem are the 3 big named marketers who have not supplied the prize promised or even you, Keith, for not contacting us before you condemned the Everyone Will Win Event. After all, my support desk link is right in the member’s area so you could have easily asked questions.
I think you should rejoin and promote the hell out of this giveaway. Just look at the help you could provide some of your list members if they they were the winners of some of these prizes.
Plus I just mentioned most of the prizes because there are more.
I see this as a big mistake on your part that has put a damper on the size of our giveaway because you did not have all the information. Rejoining and promoting heavily would be a way to make amends and put all of this behind us.
The bottom line is we did not just make fake big name marketers up that did not agree to participate;ate in our event.
Wishing you much list building success,
Steve Yakim
Hi Steve
Have you had a chance to verify with any autoresponder providers that the mechanism you use for this event will not violate the terms of use? Your system may use a different mechanism than the one I was involved with 6 months ago (which Aweber advised me to get out of) and may be acceptable. But I doubt it since the initial sign up to your event and the sign up to my list would be disjointed.
Also, the idea of a JV giveaway is that everyone involved promotes so that lots of new members are added. The people you mentioned are donating gifts for a contest. Some may also be JV partners, but not all of them are. The sign up page implied that they were. Whether this was intentional or not I can only assume that it wasn’t. However, it was misleading.
Also, you have been condemning Keith for posting what he knew, which is that one of the people listed on your front page didn’t know about the event. Keith mentioned the name of that person to me in a private email and I haven’t seen that name come up in any of the comments so far. It wasn’t Rich.
Perhaps this person is one of the 3 that you mention who haven’t come through with the prize, but that could be another miscommunication too.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Integrity Marketing – Lies Everywhere
I agree that there are many ethical issues within the IM industry.
On the Everyone Will Win Giveaway though, I’m one of several people who did agree to be a part of it. I do understand that there was a mix-up on names (Shefren and Joshua Shafran).
Willie
Willie Crawford´s last [type] ..The Most Trustworthy Man In Internet Marketing, And 16 Ways That He Generates Traffic
Hi Willie,
Thank you for explaining that, I have updated my post above
Keith
I just thought you should know that I personally know one of the people who put together the “Everyone Will Win” Giveaway and she’s appalled at what appears to be a serious error on their Website.
QUOTE: “Over Skype, I told Steve Yakim that Joshua Shafran wanted to participate. He thought I said Rich Shefren! Shafran and Shefren!” — Kristi Sayles
The error has been corrected. If it was anybody else, I’d wonder, too — none of you are to be blamed for your caution. This is one case where I assure you it’s human error, not an error in judgment.
Yes — Kristi did send me an email about this. I would have responded the same way if she hadn’t and I saw it another way. Her email only alerted me to something that I’m very glad I didn’t miss seeing.
I was thinking about jumping on board this giveaway. Now I’m making sure I do.
Alan Bechtold´s last [type] ..What Does Your Target Market Want?
First of all before everyone jumps to conclusions, maybe the facts should be set straight. There was a Skype conversation in which someone in the group heard a name wrong. These names were almost identical and the wrong persons name and picture was put on the site. As soon as the error was found his name and picture were removed. I happen to know the person who was on the conversation, Kristi S. and she is as ethical a person as you would want to know. Keith, you should have checked with the people at the contest first to verify your facts before publishing your blog post. I understand there is a lot of unethical stuff going on in internet mkting today, but there is no reason to accuse someone when an honest mistake was made and rapidly corrected. I think you should contact them and get the whole story and write a post that reflects the facts.
Hi Bill,
Thank you for you comments – I posted a support ticket
which was not answered.
The email I received from one of the organisers blames the marketers taking part for not submitting gifts, it didnt say they had made a mistake.
I promoted this event to my list and had unsubscribes and a lot of people saying they were not happy with the way the event was setup that is why I made this blog post.
Keith
Hi Keith,
When we went into prelaunch not all parts of the site were finished and functioning properly.
The support desk was not working properly so I had to change to my regular support desk on the second day of prelaunch.
I did find your support tichet that said this…
“Please delete my account.
I will not take part in an evetn
that lists people on tghe front
page whgo have never heard of your event!”
This message was posted at…
2011-10-26 08:29:45
I’m not sure how wordpress displays times but this could mean that you posted your ticket 2 hours after making this post because of the time zone differences or you only waited 4 hours to receive a reply from a helpdesk ticket.
Most helpdesks tell you it can take up to 24 hours to get a reply. Plus the ticket did not ask any questions about what we were doing. It just asked to be deleted.
You didn’t expect or want a reply.
As an experienced marketer, you should know that a JV invite page is not the front page or home page of a website. Our JV invite page was 99.9% about the giveaway portion of this project and almost nothing about the contest portion.
We gave more information about the giveaway portion of our event than all the other giveaways going on now. We were over truthful. We did not have to tell you how our giveaway differed from all the others.
Part of our headline in the JV invitation said…
It’s A Huge Contest and Giveaway Event of 2011
We were running 2 differnt joint ventures at the same time for one project. One for the contest and one for the giveaway. We added the giveaway portion so other marketers could reap the benefits of the prizes the big name marketers had donated for the contest by calling the giveaway gifts bonus prizes.
This allowed us to bring other marketers like yourself into the contest.
By having you promote the contest instead of the giveaway this might bring more people to the site who don’t ordinarily get involved in giveaways.
Not all the Big named marketers had submitted their gift when we went into prelaunch.
But 2 days before launch we did remove all those who did not submit their prize.
You as someone who does giveaways knows that everyone who signs up to participate as a jv partner does not submit their gift.
But your software does give them time to do so up until time of launch. That is what we were doing with the Big name marketers.
Not counting the one mix up, all the big marketers pictured promised to participate in the project.
Since we were combining 2 separate joint ventures into one, the person you talked to may not have known about the giveaway part of the project.
The problem is that you bashed good people without having all the facts. Plus it seemed that you were not willing or desired to receive the facts based on your support ticket.
It seemed that your goal was to bash your competition. Plus your update to the original post does not come close to the apology everyone involved in the Everyone Will Win project deserves.
There is no way your subscriber’s would have been hurt or taken advantage of with our event.
When I made my posts that did not show up until a few days after you said this…
“I am approving everyone’s comments and you can decide for yourself if I should have made this post.”
…I did not know a mistake had been made. It was only after talking to Kristi trying to figure out who could have been the one to cause this post did I find out a mistake was made.
Since the person you talked to was not our mistake, the person gave you wrong information because they did submit a prize.
Maybe that is why you waited to approve my posts.
That means you jumped to conclusions based on wrong information not trying to get to the truth of the problem not caused by us.
What you did was wrong, bashing other marketers without the knowledge of the facts.
I hope in the future you will make a much better effort in finding all the facts before trying to destroy other people’s reputations.
Best regards,
Steve Yakim
Keith,
I happen to know the person you are speaking of in the ‘Everyone Will Win’ event. She would NOT align herself with someone who is disreputable. Did it ever occur to you that there was a miscommunication somewhere along the line and that the WRONG person was listed? Of course not! You are too busy bashing her reputation. How dare you, sir. You owe this woman an apology. She has a spotless reputation and is a fine, upstanding woman. Instead of trying to ruin her fine reputation, perhaps you should do a little investigating on how this error happened. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Hi Pam,
Thanks for your comment – I have not mentioned
anyone by name because I did not know who was really
in the event and who wasn’t.
I lodged a support ticket but it was not answered, so
I felt I had to explain to my subscribers what had happened,
and you will see from the comments above many people
are unhappy about how this event was setup.
I have updated the post to explain this.
Keith
Hi Keith,
When we went into prelaunch not all parts of the site were finished and functioning properly.
The support desk was not working properly so I had to change to my regular support desk on the second day of prelaunch.
I did find your support ticket that said this…
“Please delete my account.
I will not take part in an evetn
that lists people on tghe front
page whgo have never heard of your event!”
This message was posted at…
2011-10-26 08:29:45
I’m not sure how wordpress displays times but this could mean that you posted your ticket 2 hours after making this post because of the time zone differences or you only waited 4 hours to receive a reply from a helpdesk ticket.
Most helpdesks tell you it can take up to 24 hours to get a reply. Plus the ticket did not ask any questions about what we were doing. It just asked to be deleted.
You didn’t expect or want a reply.
Hi Keith,
I’m one of your customers and I just needed to pop in here and say that Kristi Sayles is an upright marketer and I don’t believe she would have knowingly misled anyone.
It’s a good thing when trusted marketers like you help the rest of us by bringing “questionable” items to our attention, and I surely appreciate that.
I’m also one of Kristi’s customers and she delivers on her promises; she provides good product and she does not spam nor over-send offers to her list. These things I know for sure.
I find it hard to imagine that she would do anything shady b/c who in their right mind would build their reputation over many years and then risk losing it by doing something under-handed?
I do not know the others in that promo so I am not addressing their reputations at all. I only wanted to supply comments on what I know about Kristi.
Also, folks can research her name as I have and they should find that there is nothing negative — And if someone is scammy it would show up on the Internet somewhere.
Anyway – make up your minds but I thought I would share what I know first-hand about Kristi as it would be a shame if she were ruined/damaged over an “honest” mistake (I believe the mistake was that someone got the name of a participant WRONG.)
Keith you are an exceptional and trusted marketer and I thank you for listening.
Hi Delia,
Thank you for your comment, I have added
further explaination to my post above.
As previously mentioned I didn’t mention
anyone’s name, I was just pointing out
issues with the event.
Keith
Hi Keith
Thanks for allowing us to post.
Without a doubt, there is a tremedous amount of ethics issues in this business.
In the stock market there is an indicator called the VIX. It measure volatility.
We need one in Internet Marketing – an indicator called CYN. The acrynym would stand for Cynicism. If we did, I am sure it would be at an all time high.
Many know me and have participated in my free webinars the past 6 years. By the time students get to me, they’ve gone through the ringer having been “taken” here and taken there.
I have to dance through hoops to let my students know not everyone, but unfortunately “many” marketers act in a disreputable, unethical, or unscrupulous way.
Regarding Everyone Will Win, I was asked by Kristi Sayles a few weeks back to donate a nice prize. I did.
In addition, I am participating in the event as a regular giveaway member.
I am sure the issue was just a mistake. I really don’t think there was any evil intent.
Thanks again for allowing me to post.
Gary Bacchetti
The Gentle Mentor
Hi Keith,
I thought if you were in a giveaway, you sign up and add your gift yourself?
I don’t think Rich was the only person who’s name is on there who doesn’t know anything about the giveaway.
Oh, well. good luck to the folks who are putting on this event and hopefully no one’s reputation is messed up because they weren’t really in the giveaway, although their name was on it!
I think I’ll stay out of this one…..
Lisa~
Lisa´s last [type] ..Super Simple WordPress Websites UGH!!
Hi Keith,
I appreciate that your update, but why haven’t the posts from Steve and I showing? Please approve the comments. Your reply says that you’re approving all comments.
If you’ll check, you’ll see that you have more.
This was an honest mistake. I’ve even sent Rich a Facebook apology. Schefren and Shafran sound similar don’t they? Steve misunderstood me over Skype. That’s all.
I am so very sorry that you’ve had unsubscribes over this. It’s their loss. I’ve been on your list for quite some time and join many awesome giveaways under you often. I was hoping that you would join us.
Ethics mean everything to me. I’m not only a marketer, I’m a 2nd grade teacher, Church Sunday school teacher, and song leader. I’m a Christian first. Please approve THIS comment, as well as the others.
Hi Lisa,
Steve Yakim actually created this cool, giveaway software that allows the subscribers to only have to sign up ONCE and then download as many gifts as they want. It’s much more convenient for the subscribers and results in more sign ups because it’s less of a hassle. On the other hand, the contributors simply paste their webform html into the setup and then the EveryoneWillWin redirect code into their autoresponder. It’s different, but effective and brilliant. I’m always amazed at how people resist change-even when it’s good.
Wouldn’t you rather put your info in only ONCE and just click download to get the process working?
To clarify something, though…only the gifts are uploaded. The contest prizes are NOT uploaded. The winners will be randomly selected from Random.org
in December. Every person that registers as a contributor or gift receiver, has an ID number. If we have 10,000 registered, we will put 1-10,000 into the Random. org and see what numbers are winners. We’re planning to do this in real time with webinar software, so everyone will see the credibility. That is very important to us. I can promise that every single person on that site has agreed to contribute prizes, but if you don’t believe me, ASK them. They are my friends. I’ve interviewed most of them.
Hugs,
Kristi
Hi Keith,
Just came across you blog. I too am trying to build and Internet business and was thinking of getting involved in JV’s giveaways. But what has happened to you is a fear that I and probably a great many others have.
After all your name is your reputation.
Any way I hope that it is sorted out and hasn’t done to much damage.
Ed.
Ed Welch´s last [type] ..Affiliate, to be or not to be.
I think that it would be a good idea to have all of the big names associated with this event email their lists to let them know they really are involved.
I am on lists of some of these folks and haven’t heard a thing about it which makes me suspicious.
Also, if they are only donating a gift and won’t be promoting the event, then saying that it is a JV with them is a bit misleading in my opinion.
Finally, a word to the wise. Aweber may not like the signup mechanism used by this event. The fact that a 3rd party does the signup violates their terms, so check out your A/R terms before using this event.
I was a member of a similar event 6 months ago and when I contacted Aweber about a problem I was having getting the list set up properly, they advised me that I was risking having my account suspended because of the way the signups were being done.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Integrity Marketing – Lies Everywhere
Why haven’t you heard anything about the contest? Because it hasn’t launched yet! We’ve simply been collecting prizes and contributors of gifts. The launch is Nov. 1.
Have questions? Ask. We’re listening.
Keith, PLEASE allow all comments-including this one as well as the others that clear this mess up.
Thanks,
Kristi
Hi Kristi
Your signup page promotes a JV partnership with the likes of …
When people sign up to promote a giveaway event, they promote the event to other marketers, just like Keith did. I haven’t heard peep from some of the people on your list who I would have expected to hear from if they were part of the event.
If they are only donating a prize then they aren’t JV partners. They won’t be promoting the event itself although I understand that some of them have commented here saying that they would join as contributors as well.
I find that it is a bit misleading to say that someone is a JV partner when all they’ve done is contribute a prize. You could have been more clear about how those people were being involved.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Integrity Marketing – Lies Everywhere
How does this violate rules? The subscriber STILL has to confirm the message, so what’s the problem?
I wondered the same thing when I first heard from Aweber tech support. But the problem is that the actual sign up request doesn’t come from the user’s actual IP address. It comes from the IP address of the server that signs them up. This breaks the chain of events that Aweber feels that it needs to prove that someone actually signed up for a newsletter.
I know that the confirmation still needs to happen but it doesn’t seem to be enough for Aweber. I don’t know how other autoresponders feel about it, so you should check with your provider.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Integrity Marketing – Lies Everywhere
As a follow up, I just looked at the Service Agreement for Aweber at aweber.com/service-agreement.htm
Paragraphs 3 and 4 are what I believe will cause problems for Aweber users. The last sentence of each paragraph pretty much sums it up.
Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson´s last [type] ..Integrity Marketing – Lies Everywhere
I’ll paste that in Bill, it’s something In didn’t know about until last week:
“Importing or in any way using purchased leads with an AWeber account is strictly prohibited. If you paid money or in any way purchased a group of pre-existing leads these may not be used with AWeber. This includes co-registration services, “safe lists” or any type of free leads given to you. Only people that have specifically requested information directly from you may be emailed thru AWeber.
Batching or in any way trying to script the addition of new subscribers to the web form subscribe methods is strictly forbidden. A script must not be used to auto submit a web form subscriber on behalf of a website visitor. The visitor who desires to subscribe to your list must be the one to activate that subscription process. ”
A number of membership scripts have caused issues with aWeber in the past, it’s clear that a form must be used for anyone to optin to an aweber list, it cannot be done using a script that hides the process from the subscriber.
I’m not commenting on any site, but anyone thinks a site doesn’t meet the rules then checking with aWeber (or whichever service you’re with) before joining would be the best thing to do.
I’ve know Kristi Sayles for years and she has always been an upstanding Marketer and Christian Mother, Wife and Teacher. Does she make mistakes yes. But don”t we all at times? When these things happen as with anything, getting all the facts first is always the best policy. It helps avoid additional harm done when any error is made.
Unfortunately the damage has been done on all sides, but let this be a good lesson in self-monitoring our community. While it’s important to be ethical marketers, it’s also important to guard against, false defamation as it helps no one and fuels a climate of mistrust which is already a strong in the community.
Just my 2 cents.
Hi K
I am not blaming anyone for a mistake – none of us even knew who was running this event.
The problem was when I joined and mailed my list a lot of serious concerns came to light about the signup page. It turned out to be misleading and inaccurate.
When I lodged a support ticket I had no reply.
What was I supposed to do? Just let people I had invited in join?
It wasn’t until three days after I made this blog post that one of the organisers emailed me and denied anything was wrong and also blamed 3 marketers on the list for not submitting gifts.
A Further email said there was one mistake but made various accusations against me.
Instead of ignoring my support ticket and blaming other people the issue could have been settled by a quick reply and an apology.
Have any of the organisers apologized for any of this?
Hi Keith,
I did find your support ticket that said this…
“Please delete my account.
I will not take part in an evetn
that lists people on tghe front
page whgo have never heard of your event!”
This message was posted at…
2011-10-26 08:29:45
I now see how wordpress displays times, which means you posted your support ticket only 2 hours before making this post because of the time zone differences
You didn’t expect or want a reply. You posted this reputation damaging post to your blog without getting the correct information.
Because the facts are that the person you talked to who said they did not know about our event did actually participate in our event by donating a high ticket prize.
Your excuse about posting a ticket and not getting an answer is not going to excuse you from the apology you owe for purposely trying to reck our event and reputations.
Thanks for the tip about the giveaway event,Without a doubt, there is a tremedous amount of ethics issues in this business.I understand there is a lot of unethical stuff going on in internet mkting today, but there is no reason to accuse someone when an honest mistake was made and rapidly corrected. I think you should contact them and get the whole story and write a post that reflects the facts.
justin@justin bieber´s last [type] ..Justin Bieber games 2011
Hi Keith
I am 100% confirmed to give away my $5K training program the WEST Program in this giveaway.
Kristi Sayles is, too me, one of the most ethical and upstanding people I’ve ever met on the Internet.
It is made out like the list was made up with Rich’s name on it but, Kristi told you the list of names and you mistook Shefren for when she told you Joshua SHAFRAN was considering being part of it.
Trust me when I say, I don’t normally participate in ANY give aways and especially when it involves my flag ship training program that has been online since 2008… but Kristi has an ambition to help others and grow something spectacular… I think you should add an update to this post including my comment here, to confirm this situation.
Because, when you are stating the giveaway is filled with unethical marketers, you are stating all who have volunteered very valuable gifts are unethical as well… which means you are indirectly dragging mine and the names of others who just wanted to help through the mud.
I’ll say this… THAT is something I will not stand for and you can take the time to search Bob Yeager in Google and find there has never been a student or client of mine who has ever had anything but good to say about me and my programs.
They also know I don’t involve myself in programs that aren’t focused on value.
For those who think that when people like me donate a gift that this is not an actual JV, it’s one of the higher forms of a JV in that, we participate to spread value… instead of simply being involved to build a list.
This giveaway was developed to promote ethics and value and it’s ready, fire aim blogposts like this which create rumors, controversy and leave the other side of the story out.
You should take the time to own the misunderstanding and inform your readers it is a miscommunication and that there is some real value on the table here.
Take care in topics you post before you get ALL the facts from all who are involved.
Bob Yeager
Creator and Founder of The World Entrepreneur Success Training Program and Premium Member of IM Trustworthy
https://imtrustworthy.com/public_profile.php?search=15470
Hi Bob,
The list which was on the sales page and in the promotional email I received included many excellence marketers. The point of the post is that not all of them knew they were listed as being JV partners, and the support question I asked wasn’t answered.
Thanks
Keith
Thank you for printing this post,Keith.
We have an excellent contest live now at
[LINK REMOVED]
We had a rough start-as many launches do-
but now we’re moving along nicely.
Our helpdesk software is working and
everyone pictured on the sites agreed
to offer the prizes described.
I appreciate
that you want to protect your subscribers from scams.
I feel the exact same way. Our contest is not a scam and
hopefully all the misunderstandings have been cleared up and
apologized for. Now we can have a fun, profitable contest!
Dec. 2nd, we’re going to go to random.org on a live webinar and choose the top nine winners. Everyone that doesn’t win the top nine will win the tenth prize. It’s going to be great! Hope you’ll all join us!
Hi Kristi,
Sorry some comments were in spam, possibly due to having links in them (I have removed the links now).
I have been through nearly 900 recent ones, and approved all the real ones I can see (9 so far). That should auto-approve anyone who places additional comments.
I was invited into the event by another marketer who said it had launched.
I didn’t expect this to get a big re-action it was just for people on my list who complained to me when I promoted the event, and others in forums, and on skype who raised issues before I made this post.
The original post questions the list of people being wrong, it doesn’t accuse anyone on the list of being unethical at all.
People were reading the sales page as meaning all the names listed are going to be JV partners and promote the event.
Keith
I wonder how many times could I visit Randy’s blog to help you out here? Anyway, I was able to visit blog and saw the contest. I hope you win the contest! As for your post, at least you were able to handle whatever trouble this mistake caused you. The important thing is you’ve accepted your own mistake. That’s what really matters.
Audrey@Baby Swing´s last [type] ..Fisher Price Swing To High Chair 2-In-1 Review
Hi Audrey,
Thanks for your offer – the competition end on 31st October though. I don’t want to spoil the surprize by saying who the winners though. I’m sure Randy won’t mind you keep visiting his blog though.
I’m read nearly every post there.
Thanks
Keith
Oh! Looks like my vote isn’t counted in that case. Anyway, I would love to check Randy’s site again and see the names of the winners. His site is great so I used to visit it from time to time, no doubt why you too loves his site!
Audrey@Baby Swing´s last [type] ..Fisher Price Butterfly Garden Papasan Cradle Swing Review
Thanks for the heads up. I know one of the people listed and I don’t find this person all that ethical in their practices so I decided not to sign up for the event.
Atria´s last [type] ..Tips for Arizona Residents to Avoid Tax Preparers Who Might Get Them in Trouble with the IRS
Hi Atria,
Thanks for dropping by.
This wasn’t in anyway intended as critisism of anyone on
the list – I don’t know many of the names at all.
People reacted to my promo email and that uncovered various concerns which you can see in this thread.
Keith
Hey Keith! Two thumbs up to this post! Thank you for sharing about the Great Giveaways!
gabby´s last [type] ..Some Common Diseases That Can Affect Your Young Arowana
Market Ethically Or Destroy Your Business
Hi Keith, I’m very interested in the topic of ethical marketing. So much so that I’m thinking of writing a report about it. (I won’t mention any names.) I’m not sure how many people market to me, maybe two hundred, but I have only found about ten that I consider ethical.
I recently shut down an email account I’ve had for 13 years due to the amount of trash marketing I was receiving. I put a filter on my inbox for the word “unsubscribe” that sent everything to the trash. I then notified the ethical marketers of my new email address and started over. You are, of course, one of the people I trust.
I think people DO get fed up with the bad marketers and sooner or later unsubscribe from their lists. I don’t understand why these “bad” marketers don’t get the message that what they are doing is going to destroy their business.
I got an email from Tim Atkinson today that I would really like to share with everyone. It contained some really good info on good and bad marketers. If you would like me to forward it to you locate my email address on my site find-answers.info and I will send it to you. I’m sure he won’t mind.
I wish success to everyone!
Scott
This is very interesting…I think 2012 will be the year of money makers online…thanks for sharing it…
Ricci Sionil´s last [type] ..Halloween Costume Sales Buoyant Despite Challenging Economic Climate, According to All Fancy Dress
In the end it’s not entirely your fault, like you said, we all make mistakes. And everyone should check the info by themselves before getting into something like this, even if the one that recommends it is trustworthy. Trustworthy does not equal perfect.
Claire@How to remove House Mold´s last [type] ..All About Bathroom Mold Removal
I think ethical marketing is a little bit of a polar example, I think ethical SEO is impossible – especially with the sales people in that area!
James´s last [type] ..Stop your heartburn
Wow, I didn’t sign up due to some other reasons, but when I looked at the list I saw some pretty high powered names that I often see at giveaways, but there were a couple that I don’t believe I’ve seen partake before.
wewe1976´s last [type] ..HIGH PEAK Kuppelzelt Nevada 3(10085), dunkeloliv/helloliv
I agree there are good marketers and bad marketer, but there is nothing ethical about marketing! Can you imagine sales agents saying “buy my product even if competitors have a better one?” Or bloggers saying “click every ad on my website, you’ll find an extraordinary thing on the website that you’ll be redirected?”
Robert@Hand Vacuum Reviews´s last [type] ..Hoover BH50030 Platinum LINX Pet Cordless Hand Vacuum Review